I'm an Opinionated Gamer
Over on the forum, the following thread was started:
I'm going to let you in on a little secret. This kind of thing drives me batshit crazy. There, I've said it.
Yes, the book says a "Gleaning can be used to discover basic facts or even hidden secrets of a person, place or object…" But that statement needs to be taken within context. Below is the full quote from the book:
"Gaining a magical glimpse of the past, present, or future through a Divination is a powerful form of magic much sought after by everyone from peasants to Kings. It can be so powerful, and the things it reveals so upsetting, that many Cultures (particularly Divine King Cultures) will regulate if not outright ban the use of Divinations, particularly in regard to the fate of Kings, Princes, and other powerful political or religious figures in a Culture…
There are two basic types of Divinations in the Known World, Gleanings and Foretellings. A Gleaning is a Divination performed in order to reveal information, to learn something about a person, place, or object in the past or present. A Foretelling is a predictive Divination designed to reveal something about the future fate of a person or course of action. A Gleaning can be used to discover basic facts or even hidden secrets of a person, place, or object, learn what they have done, where they have been, who made them, and so forth. A Foretelling can be used to discover what might happen to someone in the future, or the possible results of a course of action that someone is considering taking, for good or for ill."
Looking at the full text, I would rule that the result of a Gleaning would give a glimpse of the actions that earned Pollution. For instance, a successful Gleaning would show a person going to the privy, killing a hen for breakfast, slogging through mud, or saying a god’s name in anger. These are simple actions that earn a character Pollution.
Speaker One asked, "Why would the priesthood rely solely on purification? Why do cleansings to get rid of pollution that need never be introduced in the first place?..."
Because that's what priests do and have always done. A font of holy water is near the entrance to a church for a reason. A shaman cleanses himself with sage smoke for a reason. Every day Pollution happens. There is no need to Glean why or how it exists because it will be there regardless. The point is to be cleansed of Pollution before entering into a sacred space or ritual.
Speaker One said, "Now no doubt you're going to pop up with some ridiculous argument that 'the culture isn't like that'. The hell it aint."
Ridiculous? I don't think so. Remember that quote from the book? "It can be so powerful, and the things it reveals so upsetting, that many Cultures (particularly Divine King Cultures) will regulate if not outright ban the use of Divinations…"
They "will regulate if not outright ban". Guess what, the priest culture isn’t likely to use Divination to Glean the Pollution levels on every Tom, Dick and Harry that walks in its church doors.
Speaker One continues with, "every so often (daily for well trafficked sites, weekly for less well known ones) you do a Gleaning on the site itself just to make sure it isn't getting away from you."
This comment concerns me first in that it's written as if performing a Gleaning will just tell you the floors need scrubbing. Again, my interpretation of a Gleaning is that you would learn how Pollution was earned not that it was earned at all.
With the understanding that Pollution happens as an every day part of life and that certain amounts of Pollution are bound to be brought into sacred spaces, a Gleaning for Pollution is an unnecessary and out of the ordinary act of Divination.
Speaker One: Somebody asked about using Seeing to find pollution. I don't think they got a complete answer. I just read the rules on divination and realized that a Gleaning (to find something unknown or secret) does the trick. It's TN 18 so it's not easy but priesthoods in sacred places can do it to prevent the place getting fouled.
Speaker Two: You certainly can use a gleaning to get the information; however, any answer will be metaphorical.
How every under most conditions, people will not do so, they will instead use purifications on them selves first before entering a sacred area and the priesthood are likely to purify the space regularly.
Speaker One: Why would the priesthood rely solely on purification? Why do cleansings to get rid of pollution that need never be introduced in the first place? A regular scan of the population that usually visits a space (and a compulsory scan of strangers who enter) costs as little as one point of the priesthoods Spirit, they can even do people in batches to save time and resource (one of you is dirty, ok now we split you into two groups and ask if anyone's dirty in each, etc). Routinely washing people who don't need
Now no doubt you're going to pop up with some ridiculous argument that "the culture isn't like that". The hell it aint. The priests know their job and the skills and resources they have to achieve it. The most efficient way is to Glean regularly. Often enough that there is a low chance that someone entering has pollution above the Purification Rune level. Of course you encourage the locals to clean everyday, and that's their normal routine (after they take their nightclothes off but before they put their clothes on) and then make sure anyone dirty washes themselves. Small regular washings are done on the site. Every so often (daily for well trafficked sites, weekly for less well known ones) you do a Gleaning on the site itself just to make sure it isn't getting away from you.
I'm going to let you in on a little secret. This kind of thing drives me batshit crazy. There, I've said it.
Yes, the book says a "Gleaning can be used to discover basic facts or even hidden secrets of a person, place or object…" But that statement needs to be taken within context. Below is the full quote from the book:
"Gaining a magical glimpse of the past, present, or future through a Divination is a powerful form of magic much sought after by everyone from peasants to Kings. It can be so powerful, and the things it reveals so upsetting, that many Cultures (particularly Divine King Cultures) will regulate if not outright ban the use of Divinations, particularly in regard to the fate of Kings, Princes, and other powerful political or religious figures in a Culture…
There are two basic types of Divinations in the Known World, Gleanings and Foretellings. A Gleaning is a Divination performed in order to reveal information, to learn something about a person, place, or object in the past or present. A Foretelling is a predictive Divination designed to reveal something about the future fate of a person or course of action. A Gleaning can be used to discover basic facts or even hidden secrets of a person, place, or object, learn what they have done, where they have been, who made them, and so forth. A Foretelling can be used to discover what might happen to someone in the future, or the possible results of a course of action that someone is considering taking, for good or for ill."
Looking at the full text, I would rule that the result of a Gleaning would give a glimpse of the actions that earned Pollution. For instance, a successful Gleaning would show a person going to the privy, killing a hen for breakfast, slogging through mud, or saying a god’s name in anger. These are simple actions that earn a character Pollution.
Speaker One asked, "Why would the priesthood rely solely on purification? Why do cleansings to get rid of pollution that need never be introduced in the first place?..."
Because that's what priests do and have always done. A font of holy water is near the entrance to a church for a reason. A shaman cleanses himself with sage smoke for a reason. Every day Pollution happens. There is no need to Glean why or how it exists because it will be there regardless. The point is to be cleansed of Pollution before entering into a sacred space or ritual.
Speaker One said, "Now no doubt you're going to pop up with some ridiculous argument that 'the culture isn't like that'. The hell it aint."
Ridiculous? I don't think so. Remember that quote from the book? "It can be so powerful, and the things it reveals so upsetting, that many Cultures (particularly Divine King Cultures) will regulate if not outright ban the use of Divinations…"
They "will regulate if not outright ban". Guess what, the priest culture isn’t likely to use Divination to Glean the Pollution levels on every Tom, Dick and Harry that walks in its church doors.
Speaker One continues with, "every so often (daily for well trafficked sites, weekly for less well known ones) you do a Gleaning on the site itself just to make sure it isn't getting away from you."
This comment concerns me first in that it's written as if performing a Gleaning will just tell you the floors need scrubbing. Again, my interpretation of a Gleaning is that you would learn how Pollution was earned not that it was earned at all.
With the understanding that Pollution happens as an every day part of life and that certain amounts of Pollution are bound to be brought into sacred spaces, a Gleaning for Pollution is an unnecessary and out of the ordinary act of Divination.
posted by Spring at
9:25 AM
17 Comments
